Open Ballot: Has KDE become a second class desktop?
Last week, it was announced that Canonical are no longer going to fund Jonathan Riddell to work on Kubuntu. Add to that, Aaron Seigo has also announced that his funding to work on KDE development is also coming to an end. This got us thinking, has KDE become a second class desktop on Linux?
No major distribution ships it by default openSUSE is the only major distribution to ship it by default, its funding is being cut back, and it seems that, when people talk about alternatives to Gnome Shell or Unity, it's XFCE that gets mentioned.
What do you think: Is KDE slipping in mind share and importance? Or maybe you see a bright future for this desktop, as Qt and other KDE technologies spread on to mobile devices and TVs? Let us know in the comments. We'll be reading out a selection on this week's podcast, and of course we'll be throwing in our own thoughts too.
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Your comments
"No major distribution ships
Peter (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 3:04pm
"No major distribution ships it by default" - have we forgotten OpenSUSE?? #4 on Distrowatch
Choice at install?
TuxRadar - February 13, 2012 @ 3:17pm
Jon here, since I wrote this:
my understanding is/was that openSUSE offers the user a choice at install time. Looks like I was wrong though, so I'll correct it in the post. I should probably go and install openSUSE right now, since I clearly don't know enough about it.
Apologies.
First Class Desktop for Power Users
Slick Rik the Ruler (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 3:23pm
I think KDE is a first class desktop for power users, especially on a multi-monitor setup. It probably is a little too involved for day to day computing, with too many configurable options for an average user. However, if you regularly have to flit between disparate and relatively involved tasks, KDE gives you the flexibility to configure your desktop environment in the manner that best suits your working style. It's only natural that a simpler DE such as Gnome or XFCE is favoured by quick-deployment distros in order to improve first-time user experience. Whenever I install Linux for a new user I always go with something simple (Mint now, Ubuntu previously) to lessen the gradient of what is already a steep learning curve. I would be interested to see a breakdown of which DE users choose to install for a more complex, DE agnostic distro like Arch.
KDE is still my first choice!
Ross (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 3:54pm
To be honest, I don't know why Gnome is popular, as far as I'm concerned KDE is a better desktop environment (more attractive and more usable).
Perhaps if there was less FUD about one of the best KDE distros (openSUSE), it would be more popular.
My suggestion is: if you haven't tried KDE in a while, give openSUSE/KDE a spin. It is continues to improve.
Down with KDE! Up with XFCE!
Curl (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 4:19pm
Down with KDE! Up with XFCE! KDE is too bulky.
No
The Penguinator (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 4:24pm
The fact that they chose to stop funding one developer who was working on Kubuntu has next-to-nothing to say for KDE as a whole, and possibly not too much even for Kubuntu. Canonical has to focus its financial efforts into making their main product viable, so having another spin of the same product which also loses money doesn't make sense at all.
"Look, they killed KDE!" seems like a bit of an overreaction, doesn't it? But I guess people want another reason to hate on Canonical these days, so speculation like this is probably welcome.
Confused about appeal of Gnome??
Jon_caco3 (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 4:25pm
You know, I finally got fed up with lack of control and choice with M$ about 4 years ago and made the switch to Linux. At the time I had reviewed a lot of DE's and went with KDE. First went with Kubuntu, then openSUSE, and now Arch. Couldn't be happier. So with things going good I decided to also switch over the family and kids to Linux as well and went with MINT Gnome since I thought it would be easier. You know what, I've been listening to nothing but complaints and confusion for the past 6 months. Ready to move them over to KDE as well. There is something about the new Gnome 3 interface that is either not intuitive or too many clicks to get anything done. Maybe I just need to spend more time with it, but don't see the appeal.
+1 KDE user here.
Linuxrich - February 13, 2012 @ 4:44pm
I've preferred KDE since my start on the Linux journey with SuSE 7.1 way back when. My current favourite distro is Mepis which is effectively KDE only. (Assuming you count antiX to be a seperate distro these days.) Mepis is at #36 on Distrowatch so although not one of the big boys, it's still up there to some degree. I think most people will have heard of it.
No Second
me just me (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 4:53pm
Sorry but KDE is the first to no second.
Let me stop you right there!
Mayank Sharma (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 5:17pm
I am not sure why everyone's surprised about Canonical deciding to stop funding Riddell's work on Kubuntu. They seem to be consolidating all their resources behind their own in-house desktop, Unity. (Whether it's a prudent thing to do or not, is a separate issue.)
But will this (and the other developments that you've mentioned) have an impact on KDE's adoption? Not in the least.
From a purely economical point of view, development of KDE's building blocks are well funded, and so are most of the developers who put them all together. IMHO, this (Canonical withdrawal) is too insignificant a decision to even make other KDE devs look up from behind their terminals, as far as KDE's future is concerned.
In fact, even though Riddell was on rotation to the Bazaar team (http://blogs.kde.org/node/4414) for 6-months between the 11.04 and 11.10 releases, it didn't really hamper the release of Kubuntu 11.10.
Nah, KDE will continue to thrive on Ubuntu, and on other distros.
so slackware is ignored
pissed slackware user (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 5:18pm
As far as I have check slackware ships kde by default and it is major distort. It is 17 on distrowatch but is one of the originals and arch is 6 on distrowatch and is also kde focused. So no its not dead and will never be put to the way side. The desktop is still important and people need to easily configure there desktop when the auto things break.
KDE becoming aggravating
stan_qaz (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 5:23pm
I've been a KDE fan for many years and love some of the new changes that came with version 4 but there are just too many drawbacks for a new user.
Turning off the aggravating on-screen messages is a simple example, how do you keep nepomuk from nattering at you?
Once you have icons on your desktop how do you deal with the aggravation of them being random widths and not re-sizable using the drag handle?
KDE settings are a nightmare, what is buried where and what do the options really do? Quick, how do you set new windows to open centered in the screen?
If I was new to this I'd probably switch and I dread giving a copy to someone new and having to deal with the very unreasonable learning curve.
KDE is simply too much for a normal user
Chrissyb (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 5:49pm
I've been using for somewhere between 3 and 4 years now and I have only started getting into using KDE. I started using Ubuntu as my first distribution and gnome was just intuitive (gnome 2 mind you) and quick. KDE was always bulky and slow and required too much time for me to use it. Currently, I use KDE 4.8 with Fedora 16 and I really like it, but it did take me that extra 10 or so minutes to get the effects and the composition of the desktop to be the way I wanted it. To KDE's benefit, multi monitor desktop setup is the single easiest thing in the world and it does it all for you (come on gnome do I really have to tell you I have two monitors?).
I think Gnome 3 and Unity will eventually mature to the point where all users will at least give them the time of day, but on a low power setup I would choose XFCE any day.
It's Ubuntu's fault
heiowge (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 6:24pm
If Ubuntu hadn't been quite so popular, we might have seen more people migrating from Windows to fedora / OpenSUSE / Mandriva instead.
With Ubuntu blatantly favouring the Gnome desktop and so many people installing it, it's no wonder so many new users favoured Gnome. I know I did.
I believe KDE is on a decline. It's a shame really for many reasons, not least of which is that it's the closest in appearance to Windows 7, so it should be more comfortable for people to switch to than Gnome or Unity.
I also prefer KDE to Gnome 3, but haven't found a Debian based distro to favour it. They all seem to have Gnome as default (or shell, or unity or cinnamon etc) and KDE as an afterthought. I think it'll always play second fiddle to Gnome.
KDE rides first class!
Sultan_of_Swing - February 13, 2012 @ 6:33pm
Putting KDE first (or second) over another alternative needs some qualifying, because it's not ideal for every computer, nor every user.
There are some great KDE-based distros out there (Sabayon, PCLinuxOS, Mepis, OpenSUSE, Pardus, Kubuntu) but I currently use Linux Mint 12 KDE, which is far from a second-class respin. I personally think it's the best distro for what I do (multimedia, graphic design and video editing) but then it's more about the applications rather than the desktop. I prefer the QT-based Digikam, Kontact, Clementine, Kdenlive and K3B over their GTK+ alternatives.
In a way, KDE is very much the Deluxe Desktop for the discerning PC user, because it's sleek, stylish and runs like a dream on a new computer. It will also do everything you want it to. Yes, it has tons of options, but you can happily ignore most of them since the default set-up is usually fine.
Right at this moment, I think KDE offers the best stable and traditional desktop design (in the Windows sense) available on Linux & BSD. If you love QT-based apps, then clearly this is the best choice, but with Unity and Gnome still immature, for full desktop functionality, KDE really does set the benchmark.
It's definitely first-class, but should deserve more attention than it gets.
Are you kidding? KDE is in rude health!
Bruno (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 6:57pm
To be fair, Kubuntu was never a serious contender for the crown of best KDE offering. In LXF 147's distro showdown, openSUSE was lauded as, "The only sensible choice if you want a bang up-to-date and expertly integrated KDE desktop." (K)ubuntu didn't make the podium in the "Desktop" section. I've often read Ubuntu reviews in LXF that state (at least prior to Gnome 3) thst the distro makes only scant customisation of the "stock" Gnome for each release. If this is also the practice for Kubuntu (and it looks like it is) then this is where the project is going wrong.
KDE is often critised for having too many configurable options but I see it as the job of the distribution to properly integrate their chosen DE (whatever it may be) and for KDE, this means choosing sensible default settings, so users (especially new ones) can just crack on without fear of lots of configuration to do. openSUSE achieves this with aplomb.
In LXF 152's battle of the desktops, KDE proved (against Unity and Gnome 3) to be the DE with which users were most comfortable, primarily because it hasn't departed from the typical desktop metaphor and it has decided to go for separate touch and mouse environments, which is sensible. Thus, in disagreement with the third comment here, KDE is suitable for day-to-day computing. Additionally, in LXF's frequent software roundups, it is the KDE/Qt programmes that are usually declared the winner.
In addition, on LXF fora, when asked, "What is your preferred desktop ...?", (http://www.linuxformat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14290) just over a third of respondants were using Gnome (in one of its three present incarnations), just under a third were using KDE, a quarter were using XFCE with the remaining sixteenth or so using other options. However, the largest single fraction were using KDE.
Not necessarily second class
Rhakios - February 13, 2012 @ 7:17pm
KDE has been a victim of its own developers, it has many first-class applications and is potentially capable of doing almost anything one might require. However, neglect of core functions like KDE PIM and apparently functionless bloat (like the file indexing that doesn't seem to make finding files any quicker or more accurate) don't do it any favours.
It's still a better single-click desktop that either Gnome or XFCE (by which I mean single-click works in all windows and dialogue boxes).
I'd love to move back to KDE full time, having grown up with it as a Linux user, but I migrated to Thunderbird for email and I've got used to the single/double-click peculiarities of Gnome 2.x and XFCE, so I'll probably just go with XFCE on my next major system upgrade.
Personally, I left KDE a
Anonymous Penguin stikes again (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 8:44pm
Personally, I left KDE a long time ago (been a Gnome user since 2002), and have not looked back since. I have latched on Ubuntu since it came out because it worked better with my hardware choice at the time than Fedora did. I liked what KDE had to offer with KDE 4, but it seemed like their UI didn't really click with me. I like Gnome's UI and now Unity's UI. I personally don't think KDE is second class desktop I just prefer GTK apps over QT ones.
A War on Qt
Ricardo David (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 8:46pm
Microsoft has killed Delphi when Kylix was launched. A multi-platform IDE for a already established developer base based on Qt. Bye bye Borland. Elop shuts down Symbian and Meego, by the time Nokia got Qt as a unified platform for developing apps for it's devices.
Is Qt always too late or I smell conspiracy here?
I love KDE
TomDOW2 (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 9:27pm
I run Arch and KDE runs just as fast as Gnome 3. It could not be much more configurable so I can have it set up exactly how I find useful. On KDE I can have it set to be like LXDE, Gnome 2, Gnome 3, OSX or whatever else I can dream up. I love it. Anyone who has not tried 4.7 or 4.8 should give it a go because in my opinion KDE is becoming very good. Im not (yet) a programmer so I cannot really comment on QT vs GTK.
It is a shame about Riddell
Kevin Colyer (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 10:24pm
KDE has always been my desktop of choice, although making me weep at moments through the early 4 releases and still has annoying niggles. It clearly is a shame that Jonathan is not going to be funded. The sort of plumbing work that he was funded to do (printer configuration springs to mind) makes KDE a joy compared to a certain non-free desktop in that respect.
That Aaron's funding is ending I am not so concerned about. He will be pursuing a Tablet + Plasma future, which is one I have little or no interest in. I find the alternate nature of the Plasma desktop's widgets created a double-paradigm desktop on KDE which jars; pretty as it is. To my mind Aaron has been focusing on the tablet direction fruitfully but to the detriment of the traditional desktop.
In fact the Desktop / Tablet split is becoming clear everywhere with Unity and Gnome Shell aiming at tablet space too (fortunately Gnome Shell is flexible to be remixed to a Desktop paradigm.) I think that it is next to impossible to have a unity of paradigms when the means of input differ in subtle but important ways.
It may be the beginning of the end for Kubuntu, but I very much doubt it for KDE, although some more paid developers would be nice!
Why do you even ask?
jarubyh (not verified) - February 13, 2012 @ 10:54pm
I really think we're reading a whole lot more into Canonical dropping official support for Kubuntu. (Do we really want the project to be lead by the great company that made Unity default on Ubuntu?) KDE is still just as ever. I've only used Kubuntu once (KDE 4.7 kicked my poor, underpowered laptop to an early grave), but I was quite impressed by it and I think, as distros such as Arch and Mint have shown us, community-driven does not at all spell disaster for a distro. On the contrary, I think Gnome is the DE that needs to start sweating, there's only so much more time we can squeeze out of Gnome 2 before it becomes totally obsolete. Also, I've been hurt to my soul that you've counted Slackware as "not a major distro".
Categorical not
moondowner (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 12:22am
We all know the reasons Canonical dropping support - they need all new users to focus on Ubuntu and the Ubuntu related products. That's why there isn't a KDE client for Ubuntu One as well.
There are a lot of distributions offering KDE as a default choice (besides Kubuntu) as: Mageia, Mandriva, Chakra, Pardus, Mepis, openSUSE, Sabayon, PCLinuxOS, and more. PC-BSD uses KDE as default too!
I use Netrunner at the moment and the experience is pretty awesome!
KDE 4.8 was just released and it's really a nice improvement. Plasma on Mer and the tablet was announced, which is another nice improvement! Calligra will be Final soon which will shake some ground too.
These kind of kde-dead-style posts just demotivate the KDE community and the KDE and Kubuntu contributiors. Not good!
Indifference
niadh (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 12:46am
I went to the effort to try and learn KDE4.8 and I had a pleasant enough experience, if not enjoyable. It just felt too big, not bloated, my computer is powerful enough to run pretty much everything so I had no way to measure performance. It just felt like there was so much that could be used I just went back to XFCE.
It's possible that's way it's packaged, kdeedu, kdeaccessability etc, but it's just way more than I could need.
I have nothing bad really to say about KDE, I just didn't enjoy it, guess it's a preference thing.
KDE's alive, well and living in Paris
semi-Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 1:33am
Ubuntu is slipping in the ratings though.
KDE, Gnome, and Unity are all second class bloathog desktops.
Anonymous Barking Penguin (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 2:11am
'nuff said
too many turns
merelyjim (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 4:18am
For every turn in KDE, there seem to be three or four strring-wheels getting you there. Even though I know I'm in the minority, I'll stick with Openbox or Xfce [crunchbang].
Superior programs, inferior desktop
Maverick Steel (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 8:50am
I'm a *buntu user, typically sticking with Xubuntu, but having the other DEs available at login. I just find the KDE desktop to be too clicky for my tastes. I get particularly annoyed that when I 'apt-get install kubuntu-desktop', it completely takes over my boot-up, and login screens.
While my favourite desktop at the moment is XFCE though, I tend to immediately remove some of the stock programs in favour of KDE ones - Okular, kdenlive, k3b to name a few. They're highly featured, and well organised. I'll give Mint/Cinnamon a go when the next Mint comes out, but it's XFCE for me now.
The 'Apple' type
Eric the Penguin - February 14, 2012 @ 9:15am
I think KDE has become more of a 'premium' type of desktop like the Apple equivalent of PCs.
Actually KDE was the first
nai - February 14, 2012 @ 9:29am
Actually KDE was the first DE I used and have always been my first choice, besides a while just after the 4.x cycle began. It's simple enough, works great and doesn't treat you like your a 8 year old, e.g. all I want from a DE.
KDE user since 4.2 speaking here...
bananaoomarang - February 14, 2012 @ 10:45am
I actually think KDE is growing in popularity now, quietly. Especially in media coverage, it's future is with Qt, and it's future is in mobile, as is everyone's.
Linux on the desktop is losing relevance, we have to face that now. This is primarily because we're going through the biggest revolution since the GUI, web 3.0 if you like. Everyone's losing relevance to your average consumer, other than the mobile devices, our desktops are slowly evolving into web browsers, that's the reality whether people like it or not, we laugh at chrome books now but in 5 years it's a feasible device.
With this in mind, every desktop has to evolve, and that includes Linux.
I think KDE4/Qt are about to explode, KDE4 is more than a desktop, it's a framework, you can build whatever you want with and around these pieces, I mean, look at Plasma Active. I find that really exciting.
Kubuntu was always second class, always lackluster, it always seemed far less stable than other KDE4 distros, ans that was due to lack of support from the beginning. It's sad to see it lose funding, but I don't think it ever had enough to be great anyhow.
In conclusion, then, all Linux desktops are losing relavance, and are rapidly trying to innovate, KDE4 did the hard work at 4.0, the others need to catch up. I think we'll see it rise in popularity in the next year or so, even if it seems second class now. But I'm probably wrong!
Also, has everyone seen Spark? It's pretty freakin' cool.
It's not dead, merely pining
BobTheLinuxHacker (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 10:58am
I used to be a big KDE fan, prior to version 4 anyway. The nonsense about KDE4 moved me to Gnome and that's where I've stayed.
However, now that good old Gnome2 is being phased out, then maybe it's come time to look at KDE4 again. Especially as Gnome3 is reputedly as unusable (unintuitive and bloated) as Unity is.
So there's my conclusion - Gnome3 and Unity may reawaken interest in KDE4. There's certainly no love for the "single DE to rule them all", so there's space for it.
The Sun Will Rise Tomorrow
Sean (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 1:34pm
After 4 years of trying distros like Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, OpenSuse, CrunchBang and others, losing "official" support for Kubuntu doesn't mean much to me.
KDE does not belong to Canonical...they just use it. Any user could patch up there own system with the K just as easily.
I think KDE is great but I have never been able to wrap my head around the configurations. I don't want to sound like the president of the Mike Saunders Fan Club, but XFCE is simple and elegant!
Choice is good for all and the sun will rise tomorrow!
Yes Of course!
Dylan C (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 1:45pm
KDE has become a second class desktop because:
- KDE 4.0 sent many of KDE users away from it.
- Ubuntu is the most popular distro by a large margin and doesn't use KDE.
- XFCE is seen as the alternative to Unity/Gnome not KDE.
KDE Distro's
Al (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 2:35pm
Sorry Jon, I think there are a number of distributions which ship KDE as their default/preferred desktop environment - Chakra, PCLinuxOS, Sabayon, Mandriva and Mageia come to mind. In my experience, KDE is very easy to customise and offers a very attractive/intuitive user interface. For this reason, KDE will always remain a viable alternative to GNOME or Unity (if not better)
Regards,
Al
Diehard KDE user!
Joe (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 4:24pm
I don't know what all this talk is about Gnome's superiority to KDE. I have used KDE for years now and it is yet to let me down. Being a power user, I just can't cope with Gnome's lack of control. My experience with Windows? Yuck! Open source all the way!
I dont think so
unnamed flightless spheniscidae (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 5:02pm
When KDE changed at 4.0, there was a migration away from it. When Gnome changed at 3.0, there was a migration away from it. All this did was to elevate desktops like XFCE to a more a prominent position. Will distros at the top of Distrowatch start shipping with XFCE by default? I don't think most distros will take this approach, but I wouldn't be surprised if more started shipping with KDE soon.
Linux Mint is at the top of Distrowatch at the moment and Cinnamon will soon be the default. Will others pick it up? It is shaping up to be a decent replacement for Gnome.
One more thing, it looks like Ubuntu has started a little war against... well, everyone. I expect they will drop further down the ladder before they wake up. Then again, who needs several different versions of the same thing? Also, Unity sucks.
Chakra is on the way
Shokry (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 6:37pm
Why hasn't anyone mentioned chakra?
it's a kde-only distro with semi-rolling update mechanism that some people think it's the best kde implementation ever,
Really it's fast, faster than OpenSuse that I have on the same machine.
Overall KDE is the only usable DE nowadays IMO, it's faster than Unity, easier than GNOME 3, and obviously it's prettier,
When I was using Unity it takes with no apps open a whole gig on my RAM, with KDE it's under half a gig with most desktop effects turned on.
KDE is the DE for me!
Bruce (not verified) - February 14, 2012 @ 7:23pm
I find KDE and its programmes much more visually appealing than Gnome/GTK ones. However, I'm a pragmatist when it comes to software and will use a Gnome/GTK programme where I find it to be better. Strangely enough though, I do find that Thunderbird looks better on openSUSE 11.4/KDE than on Mint 10/Gnome. I tried standard Ubuntu (with Gnome) during its ascendency but I couldn't see what all the fuss was about. I thought it was ugly, I couldn't configure anything to be how I liked it, there was no single Gnome configurator but several separate ones for each aspect of Gnome that was configurable. I also couldn't find programmes easily, a problem confirmed in LXF 155's article on Penguins in Africa. With KDE and openSUSE, there is a plethora of programmes in the K menu just waiting for almost all of your computing needs.
KDE second class
DrStrangelove (not verified) - February 15, 2012 @ 2:24pm
Excuse my cynicism, but it could be Canonical not funding Kubuntu may be to 'encourage' us to use Unity.
by no means, my dear Watson
Pawel (not verified) - February 15, 2012 @ 8:03pm
I've just switched to KDE (the newest Mint release) after years of using Gnome. Gnome 3 has become largely unusable to me, with its pathetic customization options (for God's sake, I'm not going to look for an extension - which might not even exist - to change a little aspect of the interface, that's just ridiculous). Gnome2 was pretty configurable, yet simple. KDE 3 seemed awkward and ugly. But KDE 4 is a different story: it's beautiful, it is fully configurable, a bit on the complex side, but nothing to scare off anybody who has been exposed to computers for a couple of years. I think (or at least hope) that KDE IS the future of Linux desktop computing. Linux Mint is now the most popular distro, and although it's default desktop is based on Gnome, the new KDE desktop is very promising and might change the landscape a bit. And there are others, some people have mentioned OpenSuse, I've tried Chakra (which is brilliant, except for its very under-supplied repositories).
bah... desktop environments
Rico Sauve the Penguinista (not verified) - February 16, 2012 @ 1:21am
KDE is boring.
Fluxbox or Openbox with Midnight Commander and a terminal FTW!
And those mouseless environments like Ratpoison are niftier that you'd think... Like the memory of a hazy dream about a parallel dimension's paradigm shift.
they'll all be doing this
Anonymous Penguin Mike (not verified) - February 16, 2012 @ 2:12pm
New to kde more or less, so only cursorily familiar with the idea of a fallout about kde 4, etc... and do not care about it.
Having recently checked out 4.8 I have to say one thing I am very impressed with is the 'activities' feature.
Given the move to mobile platforms, and the increasing hardware capability of those platforms, I think all operating systems will be moving to a similar idea.
It's clear that shortly we will have tablets or phones which can be used portably and then docked and used as full-on desktop systems.
As that comes about the ability to easily switch between fully customized environments will be needed.
KDE 4.8 is a real step ahead here.
Yes
Andrew Cole (not verified) - February 16, 2012 @ 3:14pm
Even just a few years ago, it felt like a duopoly with all the other DE's being fringe elements that a few die hards used. Ever since the Unity and Gnome 3 debacle people have taken a closer look at their DE and the competition instead of just taking what they had for granted. At the same time, new and old players had become more usable in that time. There is certainly a sizable group of people unhappy with Unity who have switched to Mint or XFCE where in the past they may have switched to KDE as the only other viable choice.
Bottom line: When faced with more competition, KDE has lost support. In the end, it's better for everybody.
Yes.
just some guy (not verified) - February 16, 2012 @ 4:36pm
No.
What do I care, last time I had a full blown DE was a decade ago. There is nothing they can offer me that I want but can't get as a standalone application and it leaves me free to pick whatever WM I want.
Having said that, I have fond memories of KDE because it was installed on the university machines. Yes, back in the day not every student had a laptop. I know, can you imagine? Pity how the whole thing turned out. Someone fork an old version, stop creating new paradigms and just keep it updated.
KDE could make it, but I don't know why they dont...
unused (not verified) - February 17, 2012 @ 2:04am
KDE has been my first choice, since Mandrake 9.1 (what year was that?). Back then I installed both KDE and Gnome (i even forgot what version both were then?) on my old Intel Pentium II PC with 256 ram, and surprisingly KDE ran better than gnome. Since then, whenever I got my over new distro (SUSE, RedHat, and then openSUSE, Fedora, then, Ubuntu,etc), KDE would always be my first choice of DE. It was sleek, beautiful, responsive, and I loved it soooo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ much!!!!
..then KDE4 was born........
At first, when I saw the preview of it, some screenshots, I was impressed. "This thing gonna be cool", I thought. So, when it became available, I installed it on my Slackware (ver 10 or 11, i don't remember). And My first click on it, ruined every expectation I had. "Where's my desktop icon, where's my cool panel..where's...where's..?". So after exploring a while, I decided to throw it away. 3.5 was much, much better.
After that, I decided to hanging around with Gnome 2 for a while until 4.5 came out, I decided to go back. But, although it is pretty, it still never gives my better feeling than what I had in 3.5 days.
Login is slow, annoying useless animation, plasma is ugly (I hate those control buttons,ugly).
I really miss those days when everything was zap zap. I miss baghira, domino.
My hope for KDE team is, make everything simpler, that's what most user want. Make customization easier, especially in theme making. QtCurve is great, but it has it's limitation. Gnome has new beautiful theme almost every month.
That's it. I know I said a lot of sh*t. But I just want to express my "rage" that has been piling up over years.
Oh, and I don't speak English (in case you don't understand anything I said)
Balderdash
Anonymous Pangolin (not verified) - February 17, 2012 @ 5:31pm
I remember Tuxradar doing a podcast to address people peeved by their negativity, in particular towards KDE.
They say they want what's best for Linux and use it every day so they should know...
But I doubt many of them have tried KDE properly for any decent amount of time. It's just like a Windows/Mac user giving up on Linux at the first obstacle.
I respect their views but if I were to place a bet it would be on KDE and not the GNOME/Cinnamon/Mate/Unity gtk-mess.
Linux is for power users so how people can complain about configurability is beyond me. KDE and it's applications, especially Dolphin, Gwenview, Okular etc. strike a perfect balance.
KDE is doing fine and it's only going to get better!
I'm switching to Chakra
Jeff Shepherd (not verified) - February 17, 2012 @ 7:56pm
I'm switching to Chakra shortly so I can use KDE instead of Gnome.
KDE is the one and only for me (still)..
Tuxedo (not verified) - February 17, 2012 @ 9:21pm
I love KDE. It's THE DE for me, ever since SUSE 6.0 back in 1999. I tried Gnome a few times over the years, just out of curiosity, but that did not make it for me.
KDE is not all that shiny though. What are the developers thinking to inplement that awful Akonadi 'thing', that horrible serverconcept that only stashes mail in two different places in the local folder and makes Kontact crash and all funny if it does not. Never got the new Kontact to work properly. I have now KDE 4.7.4 and I am reluctant to upgrade to 4.8.0, because I am still working on Kontact 4.4.11.1-6.5, taken from KDE 4.6.5, as that version just does what I want it to do. But, as KDE 4.6.5 and Kontact 4.4.11.1-6.5 will slowly die out, I am afraid to drop Kontact altogether and move over to Thunderbird, as that just does what I want it to do. Or will the KDE developers come to their senses and drop that overbearing Akonadi or bring in a switch to turn it off?
KDE is great and certaintly the no. 1 DE for me, but Akonadi and Kontact are now two turds in an overall tasty pie.
KDE everytime for me
dth (not verified) - February 18, 2012 @ 2:01pm
I've never liked gnome and never trusted Canonical from the start. Have tried ubuntu and found it ugly and slow. Also tried gnome several times on opensuse but not for me.
Completely fed up seeing articles in more general computer magazines covering linux and they always seem to be about ubuntu. To be honest LF has been far too guilty of this too. And the tacky unity approach was just the final straw - Canonical no thank you.
KDE is not second class, Ubuntu is second class distro
ropeman (not verified) - February 19, 2012 @ 10:20am
Ubuntu is melting away. Power users just don't use ubuntu, while KDE is usefull for many power users.
GNOME SUCKS ASS aka GSA their new attachment extension in 3.6
Anonymous Messenger (not verified) - February 21, 2012 @ 12:24pm
Gnome SUCKS ASS I <3 KDE 4
I like KDE apps but not the desktop after 3.5
Too long in IT (not verified) - February 21, 2012 @ 1:28pm
I loved KDE 3.5 and I stuck with it as long as possible. It's just too difficult to install on newer distros, so I moved to KDE 4, but I found it to be too slow, too clunky and too full of nonsense. So I use IceWM but I use the latest versions of kmail, klipper, kcolorchoser and several other KDE apps. KDE and IceWM play nicely together.
When we watch steaming video, I connect my PC to the TV as it's more comfortable for us to watch it rather than being huddled round the monitor. When I installed the box, it was running Mandriva 2009 but with KDE3.5, and it supported the monitor/TV setup perfectly. When I upgraded to Mandriva 2010.2 and KDE4, the same hardware could not drive the monitor and TV. When trying to drive two monitors, the video stream spluttered so badly that it was unwatchable. The only way to get this to work, was to disable the PC monitor and just use TV out. Since I was using the old hardware and it used to be fine with KDE3.5, I was not best pleased! Hence the switch to IceWM, where dual monitors work fine.
Other things that I dislike about KDE4, compared to KDE3.5 is the cashew, the lack of ksensors and the many nonsense plasmoids, none of which I need. If the authors of KDE could replicate the speed of 3.5 in 4 and allow us to use the old desktop widgets, then KDE would be perfect.
I find the new plasmoids take up too much screen space. Compare the old kweather with the equivalent kde4 plasmoid and you will see what I mean.
new is diferent, not better
love KDE, ............3.5.x (not verified) - February 24, 2012 @ 2:32am
@...First Class Desktop for Power Users
@...KDE is simply too much for a normal user!
Come on!
Power user does not need DE!!!
Power user doing all things in command line (period).
First OS that I bought, was SuSE Linux 6.0-1998, second SuSE 7.0-2000, third SuSE 7.1-2001,...,
Maby I`m not Extra_Giga_Mega_POWER user. But I know what is good DE!
KDE 3.5.X IS EXCELLENT ONE!
@...Chakra is on the way
@...especially on a multi-monitor setup.
I have 3 mon (various sizes, on duall Radeon GC)
On Chakra KDE 4.???,...my far RIGHT monitor is Master one, and in configuration it is LEFT MONITOR!?!?
To get to the central one I go all around world, far, far right...to get to the most left monitor end then
go thru that left monitor to central one.
For KDE 4.@#$%!@#$%^ it is very logical way!
I give up from configuration! I do not use KDE 4.@#$%!@#$%^
Please, look at any release of Windows(!!!) to see how to deal with multiple monitors!
@...too many configurable options for an average user.
If it can be configured in desired way, please pre-configure it to work as KDE 3.5x!
Solve all problems with ideas what KDE 4.x should be.
Show to us (average users) that brilliant piece of DE.
Look at SuSE Studio and see that XFCE is in front of KDE in building distros.
@...Yes Of course!
Yes Of course!
@...I am very impressed with its 'activities' feature.
'activities' what for? There is much more COMMON and SECURE way to do things!
Virtual machine: WMware,...( hard jobs - start and paused when ever you want), or
Virtual desktop( web, writing, drawing,...all others jobs )
@...Pity how the whole thing turned out. Someone fork an old version, stop creating new paradigms and just keep it updated.
@...KDE could make it, but I don't know why they don't...
@...If the authors of KDE could replicate the speed of 3.5 in 4 and allow us to use the old desktop widgets, then KDE would be...
@...Oh, and I don't speak English (in case you don't understand anything I said)
Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!
KDE is my favourite
Anonymous Penguin (Finland) (not verified) - February 25, 2012 @ 8:46am
I use openSUSE because of KDE. I gave Linux Mint 12 a try because of the KDE-version. Slackware seems not to be a major distribution?
The negative side:
Nepomuk error messages are very irritating. openSUSE update is not flawless.
Nice legs, shame about the fonts
Facebook flickr (not verified) - February 25, 2012 @ 9:21pm
I go back to kde from time to time - the only gripe I have is that is the default fonts for kubuntu 11.10 look exactly the same as they looked with kubuntu 7.04, really old!
The ubuntu fonts look smoother and neater. Why don't kubuntu use the same fonts as ubuntu?
Gnome will fade
jake (not verified) - February 26, 2012 @ 9:54am
KDE is smart being able to adapt for different devices. Ubuntu saw this strength and followed suit with unity.
Gnome will fade further away as new devices are developed, KDE and Unity are future proof by design.
KDE4 is awsome and perhaps not for noobs
The Swede (not verified) - February 26, 2012 @ 4:41pm
As a Mandriva user KDE has been my DE for many years. You can build the desktop after your own likings. I also have Gnome, XFCE and sometimes other DE's installed but KDE is best on modern computers. Using a Mac/Gnome i long for my own KDE4 laptops. BUT: I think that some users would benefit from a "restore KDE to default" button in KDE. Conclusion: for me as a power user in daily production KDE4 is my choice.
n00b
4 KDE 3.5 (not verified) - February 28, 2012 @ 1:12am
It is so sad to see, that naming people as "n00bs"
is the only answer from KDE 4 people, to a bad paradigm of KDE 4!
Making more new problems and not solving existing ones is bad paradigm.
Question: What daily production can be achieve with that paradigm in KDE4?
Bad paradigma is to have the same DE for 24" and 4" screen.
It is out of common sense! Reprezentation must be different but logic the same!
Users have a choice, and lot of them say NO to KDE 4!
KDE 4 would benefit from a "restore KDE to PREDEFINE_xyz" button, not users!
...KDE to predefine_24",
...KDE to predefine_04",
...KDE to predefine_3.5.x,...
This would lead to grouping of errors and their ease of solving.
KDE Debate
Baatezuu (not verified) - February 28, 2012 @ 5:58pm
I really think that it depends on what you start with which you prefer. My first foray into the Linux world was with Ubuntu 9.04. At first coming from the windows world was a big adjustment. The menu was on top totally backwards from Windows, however is was logically laid out.
I actually got kinda excited for the new unity interface when I saw screenshots and read about it. The interface for myself while taking some time to get used to was good. I love the search based menu, the downside is if you don't know the name of the program you are looking for it can be harder to find applications. They have made good progress making the Unity dash more usable in the current implementations.
I was fine with unity until ubuntu 11.10 which moved to GTK+ and Gnome3 (Gnome-shell) as the base. At that time you lost about half of the configuration tools in system settings. After doing much research I decided to switch to Linux Mint. I am currently running 11 Katya because of the same reason 12 finally went on to Gnome3.
This then encouraged me to look into different DE's. I feel like I have at least tried all of them. Openbox, LXDE, KDE, Enlightenment, Gnome-shell, Unity, and Cinnamon.
As for KDE specifically I can say it looks nice I ran it with Pardus Linux for the most of my experience as well as Mint KDE version. There is simply something about KDE that makes me uncomfortable. My first foray into it with OpenSUSE I managed to delete my bottom panel with a few simple clicks and I played hell getting it back to defaults.
While it seems pretty stable in Pardus and Mint coming from a Gnome 2.x and then 3.x environment it feels like KDE is an entirely different language then Gnome. The things I could easily do in Gnome took a bunch of Google searching to figure out in KDE.
Lastly I'm not sure about who is better suited to move to the mobile market (which I'm sure is the future) but I think that the Gnome team is going to have problems moving forward if it doesn't start listening and implementing changes that it's users want. Clem of the Linux Mint team recently forked the Gonme-shell code to create the Cinnamon shell. After being asked why he said that the Gnome team would not listed to the changes he made and thought his work to make it more user friendly was not worth implementing. This is also why Unity was born, disagreements between the Gnome team and Cannonical about the future of the desktop.
Who's right, who knows I can only say from my opinion that I am a big fan of the Mint version of Gnome 2.x and I am looking with high hopes for the Cinnamon desktop to become the next big thing. It is not just available for Linux Mint but can also be install in Ubuntu, Fedora, and OpenSUSE.
Reviewed: Linux Mint 9 KDE
still is! (not verified) - February 29, 2012 @ 6:20am
http://tuxradar.com/content/reviewed-linux-mint-9-kde
...However, our main issues are
the well-rehearsed arguments about KDE’s complexity.
Launching software involves too much menu navigation,
defining screen-edge panels is confusing
and the tools that pop up everywhere under the mouse are annoying.
So, what's the First Class Desktop then ?
The Bumbler (not verified) - February 29, 2012 @ 3:24pm
Tried KDE a couple of times (PC-BSD, Chakra, Suse) and thought it was pleasant but a little frustrating coming from a more Gnome-ish(2) background. XFCE seemed good, but clunky somehow and (Xubuntu) seemed to fall over a little too often for me and yes, it didn't look so good. Then there's the Gnomes - 2 was a good compromise and had been my default (Ubuntus and a spell with Fedora 14) and 3 seems likeable but I get the old Windows fear (having been a DOS lover way back when) of not feeling I'm in control of what's going on somehow. Then there's Unity - yuck - tried several times but just doesn't do it for me. No real experience of LXDE, (although I really liked Crunch Bang's Openbox), Fluxbox, any others ?
So, they all seem a much of a much really. They've all got faults and most have some good points. KDE's positive was that yes, it looked nice (to me) but I couldn't get into it's default apps - one 'K' too many perhaps. I think for it to be resigned as an also-ran implies that Gnome 3 or Unity are now class leaders and I've gotta say that I certainly don't feel that's the case. Kubuntu was one I was curious to try, so let's hope it flourishes out in the community, in theory it deserves to as much as any of the others and I have to say I'm surprised, with the criticisms of Unity, that Canonical didn't then show KDE a bit of love and promote Kubby to take up where Unity had lost friends.
KDE 4 Still Sucks
Kirby (not verified) - March 2, 2012 @ 11:55am
Damn I miss KDE 3.5, gonna try the new Trinity desktop. Just installed CentOS 6.2 for work and both KDE 4 and GNOME suck.
going back
Anymouse inastorm (not verified) - March 14, 2012 @ 2:40pm
I first started using KDE way back in Red Hat 8, it made the transition from Windblows a snap for me. I loved it right up until I got tired of reloading the Kids Win 98 machine they used for media apps,I needed something, more indestructible they could use with a shorter learning curve. Kids have a short attention span,and soon get discouraged. I didn't want them to give up in frustration The early KDE 4 at the time was not the answer I needed. So I switched to gnome on Ubuntu for the entire household as it made everything easier. While at the time it seemed a really good idea, this Unity DE soon killed all that. The kids, even with being used to mobile devices absolutely hate it, as do I. They are all out of the house now and have their own machines running Linux. The oldest kept trying new distros on his own and now uses KDE on SuSe. He has made converts out of the other two. So not too long after they switched I get an email asking me why I didn't start them out on it. All I could say was good question. While I haven't played that much with the new KDE, it does seem a bit slower than the older version I was using on an older slower box, but that could just as easily be SuSe as well.
KDE needs more assertiveness
rjrich (not verified) - April 8, 2012 @ 11:28pm
KDE 4.8 is now my desktop of choice. When I first tried KDE, I didn't understand how it worked, and I thought it was too feature-rich and distracting. After trying many other desktops, including Unity, various versions of Gnome, Mate, Cinnamon, and Xfce, I tried Linux Mint 12 KDE and was hooked. By this time, I had figured out how to configure KDE, and I was won over by its polish, aesthetics, and functionality.
Now that I have discovered the merits of KDE, I am surprised that it is not more popular than it is. I think there are at least two reasons for this. First, the various distros that offer KDE do not present it in its best light. Often, the default configuration of KDE is not as attractive or functional as this desktop is capable of being. Second, the developers of KDE are not being proactive enough about their own product.
Despite the recent apparent setbacks with Kubuntu and Pardus, it is encouraging that Linux Mint and Netrunner have entered into a partnership with KDE to help develop and promote this excellent desktop. In addition, Kubuntu 12.04 and Linux Mint 13 will be LTS editions, which may help to stimulate the adoption of KDE and enhance its longevity.
Dropped KDE4 in favour of Xfce
Me (not verified) - April 10, 2012 @ 9:11pm
Just as the title suggests...
I've been a KDE user for about the last ten...fifteen years (first on SuSE, Debian, then Gentoo). But with the introduction of KDE4, I became slightly less than enthusiastic about the system. KDE has always tended to be a little bit bulky, with a slight tendency to respect Unix system conventions a bit less than its competitors... but earlier KDE issues were still rather, well, "bearable" in this subject, with the benefit of being very well useable at the same time. With the advent of KDE4, this has changed (for the worse). A good Unix system is known from its principle of being built up as a composition of systematically "independent" components, that tend to do few, well defined task, and implement those "few" tasks well. Unix app layer stuff is also never designed to mess with system layers that are none of their businesses. On the contrary, KDE4 is a large, bloated hell of stuff, which is designed around someone's "brilliant" idea of how a graphic desktop environment should behave. It's full of of cross dependencies (one can't even run simple KDE apps like Kate without loading/running lots of fuss, several "key" KDE4 components anymore), it's built around principles (indexing and cross-referencing everything) that I don't like, never agreed to and won't ever sacrify system resources (and system responsiveness) for at the first place. It also has an ever increasing habit of doing everything by itself - even those that are no businesses of a desktop environment but other layers of the Unix system and the X Window System in particular. We have seen systems that started from a bad concept and still keep dragging on their bad concept today, after investing a hell of a lot of work and more than 20 years of development into them. I _believe_, Unix' concepts are well inspired, they work and they have worked for the past 30 years. KDE4 is, in this respect, a nice example of an obviously bad concept. No experts with respect towards Unix system design principles would have created such an obviously faulty design (which is, on the other hand, an obvious sign of ex Windows guys taking key positions in free/open system development projects). I won't even have dragged this myself as far as still using KDE4 for the last couple of years, shouldn't the Gentoo developers had made it possible to at least get free of having to run Nepomuk and other "clever" and "mandatory" components of KDE4. ...Still not a perfect shot, though, I usually had problems with knotify and other "key" KDE4 components showing up in top's output, consuming a few percents of CPU time while doing basically nothing, and some other glitches that I could never get around to diagnose and (obviously) fix (...note the basic rule: the larger the bloat and cross dependencies, the less chances to reach to a well defined cause). Then, some weeks ago I made up my mind, moved all my stuff to Xfce4, uninstalled KDE4 and its associates for good, and up to now, that's all. Unless someone takes KDE's development concept into a new direction, that's probably all I can say about my KDE story for the next couple of years.
As an average user who was
Double in Trouble (not verified) - May 4, 2012 @ 7:29pm
As an average user who was willing to switch from Windows 7 to Linux, I found the overload of KDE by far too much. Settings aren't grouped in a logical way. In so many cases I wasn't able to find a setting until I found it was buried where noone would expect it to be (e.g. switching off bouncing icons setting).
On top of that, things like Nepomuk and Akonadi are simply not needed by average users. It's just the opposite. Even though I've learned about its usage, I still find it completely unnecessary that this is installed and integrated by default. Most desktop users (especially those who come from Windows) will not need this, unless you work in a business environment on projects. This semantical groupware stuff should be optional, but not default.
Also, what bothers me too, are "Activities" desktops. Again, as an average user, I find this extremely unnecessary and also annoying. It's rather confusing than helpful. Average users are fine without these Activities. Seriously, this is for total freaks who want an extra shit for every little thing. Yes, KDE is overengineered. So much manpower wasted. It could long have been a serious competitor against Windows 7 if the developers would have worked together in focusing their strength on less but superbly done features.
I want a stripped down version of KDE, without all the bloat. I want a straightforward desktop environment without semantic indexing cpu hogs by default.
Just have a look into KDE's system settings and you get the picture: BLOAT combined with HORRIBLE usability. Reduce that shit and Windows users will come in and start to use it by the dozens.
Anyway, I switch to Xfce4 now. Because Ubuntu still sucks with my Wifi (since they introduced 11.04, my Wifi doesn't work with Ubuntu).
Went back to KDE
It is I (not verified) - May 9, 2012 @ 3:24pm
I'll admit that I am a KDE fan, but after first trying KDE 4, I was disappointed with its flakiness and switched to Gnome 2 for a while. I once gave Gnome 3 a shot, since it's supposed to be the next 'new thing', but I'm sorry. The interface is pure garbage. Garbage, because it looks like they tried to please everyone with their design choices, and by doing so, they pretty much alienated everyone.
On the other hand, Xfce4 is at least usable, but although it doesn't really excite me with its plain interface, it gets the job done. But nowadays, KDE 4 can do the same thing, and has become a lot more polished since the time it was released.
So I went back to KDE, and I'm not regretting it.
Previous Gnome User
s0me0ne (not verified) - May 14, 2012 @ 10:44pm
I have always used Gnome and have tried KDE several times in the past, but stuck with Gnome. I didn't really like Gnome 3 and kept having crashes, so I decided to give KDE another shot. I was really impressed with the changes that they've made. KDE is friggin sweet now.I don't know why people on here are saying new users would have a hard time using it because as far as I can tell I haven't had to really customize or change anything. The only problem I seem to have is not being able to set the desktop icon's sizes; 32x32 or 64x64 options would be great as well as auto-valign. But at least there is a desktop to be able to put icons on without having to download the gnome-tweak-tool to do it (kinda ridiculous).
I think KDE needs to invest in some marketing now that it's more attractive. I wish they would change the application menu to have it drop in the list of programs or like a regular menu, to the right; kind of annoying always having to click back if just browsing through them (unattractive to new users). As far as I'm concerned, Gnome 3 basically dug it's own grave. Hell might freeze over before I switch back.
BTW: I started out using Ubuntu until I found out it sucked. Now I use Fedora and initially loved the firewall tool; now I use my own rules, but hated being forced into it with Ubuntu.
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