The BBC takes on Linux
A few days ago, a BBC journalist was on air saying that Ubuntu was "a whole sort of little community of enthusiasts building operating systems for absolutely nothing." Since then, as you can imagine, he's had some angry emails from Linux users, so Canonical sent him over a laptop with Karmic Koala Netbook Remix installed.
The result, sadly, isn't great for Linux, but there's a lot we can learn from the results of the test.
The bad news:
- Linux took 40 seconds to boot. Yes, that's faster than the 55 seconds Windows 7 took to boot (and on a faster laptop, too), but, still, 40 seconds is pathetic.
- The background was "offensively brown" - something people have been telling Canonical for years.
- The writer "struggled to see other machines and devices on my network."
- Audacity was "more complex to get hold of"
- He gave up trying to use Spotify, because it required Wine.
- It wasn't immediately apparent that clicking on the Ubuntu logo took him back to the desktop.
- A Canonical advisor had to come over and install a few extra things for him, including Flash, but still he "struggled to work out how I would organise photos, music and video."
- Ubuntu "would not make my computing life any simpler and more pleasurable than it is now."
He brings up some really important points. And part of our problem is that many users will say, "he's wrong; he's a newbie; it doesn't matter what he thinks." But we'd like to respectfully disagree: if the mainstream press are trying Linux and simply can't get along with it, then we've got a serious problem.
UNR itself is pretty esay to use, but it should come as no surprise that he didn't find it immediately obvious that clicking on the Ubuntu logo takes you back to the desktop. If you've ever used UNR, you'll know that Ubuntu logo is pretty small and gets lost when other apps are running. Given the market this distro is being aimed at - users who get Linux with a new netbook, and are almost certainly new to UNR - surely Canonical really needs some sort of start up "Welcome to UNR" wizard to point out a few things to help get people going?
Again, given the target market, why doesn't UNR bundle all sorts of extra codecs and plug-ins as standard? We don't know of any reason why Ubuntu couldn't have pre-installed Flash on this netbook. Adobe's licensing certainly allows it, and the free equivalent of Flash - Gnash - just isn't up to the job yet. The BBC journalist - Rory Cellan-Jones - is an experienced computer user who, as his job, tries all sorts of interesting new hardware and software all the time. Far from being a computer first-timer, he's actually not far off being a power user.
As for Audacity being hard to get hold of, this doesn't seem too surprising. Yes, we know and love Synaptic, but it must be a terrifying experience for folks who just want to install some software. Sadly, Ubuntu is taking a huge step backwards in Karmic with Software Centre, so we really don't see this getting any better in the near future.
However, there is one thing we strongly disagree with: we don't think it's difficult to organise photos, music and videos with Linux. First, please remember that Windows 7 drops several key programs from Windows, including Mail, Messenger, Movie Maker and Photo Gallery. These are some pretty fundamental tools that don't come installed as standard: you need to download and install Windows Live Essentials to get them, which is several hundred megabytes.
Out of the box, Ubuntu Netbook Remix comes with F-Spot for organising photos, Brasero for writing DVDs, Rhythmbox for playing music, Empathy for internet chat, and more. You get all this out of the box. No special internet downloads required. No hoops to jump through. And yet these are apparently harder than the Windows equivalents? Perhaps so, but, we'd argue, only because they are different - any Windows user has spent years figuring out how to get Windows just how they like it, so no matter what Linux does (short of cloning Windows byte-by-byte) it will be different and thus "harder."
Keep in mind, folks, that MS actually puts adverts into Windows Live Messenger, but even with that kind of clutter we're still apparently falling behind in usability. What do you think? Are these apps genuinely hard to use, or is there just a learning curve? Are packages still too hard to install? Should common plugins be installed as standard when we're targeting Linux newbies? Send in your thoughts below.
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Your comments
poor journalism, poor test run
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 2:51am
A quick trial-run like the BBC reporter did is worthless. What if he had never seen a Mac or a Windows PC before and gave it same test? He would be just as confused and lost. It's bad journalism and a worthless article.
You *d*ots, that's because
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 4:05am
You *d*ots, that's because he was given UBUNTU.
Yes, ubuntu is easy to use if you wanted to learn how to use Linux voluntarily, but is totally alien to someone who is "forced" to try Linux.
Give him Linux Mint and that will be easier for him to accept.
Better still, install Mint with KDE BEFORE he sees Windows 7 and he will says that windows 7 actually copies Linux.
So for all you Linux fanatics out there, you've all missed the point.
Giving Ubuntu to someone who is not voluntarily wanting to try Linux is as good as installing openbsd and shaft it to him to use - for those who have not tried openbsd and don't know what I'm talking about ..... that's the point :D
Interesting Article
menthol_penguin - October 25, 2009 @ 4:43am
<<UNR itself is pretty esay>>
okay so i know it's early (and i know my typings not perfect) but you've made a typo:-)
Personally I think most people are stuck in the way of using Windows and don't come to Linux with an open mind. Yes its different, accept that, move on and its not difficult to use. Okay so stuff is in different places. But on Ubuntu Applications is where you're going to find your programs etc its a damn site easier to use then xp/vista/7 in that regard.
Linux is just more logically thought out.
<<I would first need to get hold of something called Wine which allows you to run Windows apps. Too much bother...>>
Sorry that clicking takes so much of his precious time.
<<, I struggled to work out how I would organise photos, music and video with this system.>>
They go in the appropriately named folders.
Choice of distro
menthol_penguin - October 25, 2009 @ 5:05am
<<You *d*ots, that's because he was given UBUNTU.>>
No not given, offered. He didn't have to take it. Yes Linux Mint is easier to sue out of the box, but if he couldn't be bothered to install wine then he should stick with windows.
<<Give him Linux Mint and that will be easier for him to accept.>>
But you're still forcing him to use it.
Karmic is going in the RIGHT direction with the Software Center!
Mike_IronFist (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 8:01am
"Sadly, Ubuntu is taking a huge step backwards in Karmic with Software Centre"
Are you kidding me? The App Center is beyond user friendly - it's idiot proof! I fail to see how hard it is to look at a screen shot and detailed description of a program and then decide on whether or not you should install it. It's way better than the traditional Add/Remove and feels more grand and all-encompassing just from its design.
Ubuntu is getting easier every release, and by 10.04, purists will be whining about it being "bloated" and too "dumbed down". Undoubtably, Tux Radar will be on that side of the fence as well when the time comes.
Ubuntu is not trouble free
filip007 (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 8:09am
Ubuntu is not trouble free like junky Windows are not...
When i recommend Ubuntu to someone i say every new thing must have learning to do.
There are still some reporters out there that use very old systems and they are freelance only in some countries.
Linux can be more than welcome to reporters to and why the hell not!
In the minority
DaveS (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 8:19am
I fear I might be in the minority here. You see, I see no great benefit in evangelising Linux, and feel no great wish to convert Windows/Mac users. I fear there would be many disadvantages to increasing popularity, such as increased attention by malware authors etc.
Also, its part of the human condition that, in general, we dont vote politicians IN, we vote them OUT, or, in context, people will only switch to Linux when Windows fails them, not for any other reason. I use Linux exclusively, but Vista is what caused me to switch, not someone saying Linux is great.
In fact, throughout history, evangelists have been pretty much vilified.............
one thing missing
towy71 - October 25, 2009 @ 8:53am
UNR is pretty good but if you are using a 3g dongle there is no software installed to alert you of your downloads and uploads, most 3g contracts are capped, doh!
boo
Masox (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 9:10am
Interesting isnt it. The simple truth is we live in a 2 minute noodle society (NOthing against the noodle- I am a true noodle enthusiast) It kind of reminds me of the guy who takes a new electric guitar back to the shop he brought it from because "It didnt sound right". Technology is like a musical instrument. It takes time, patience and a huge amount of screwups to get to a reasonable level of accuracy. Yes, the guy is a womble (Again, nothing against wombles)but so is most of the people that sit at computers, they dont want to understand the hidden intricate nature of electricity, they just want to turn a freakin light on. I can relate to that.
Why I like you!
Wickoo (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 4:35pm
You know Tuxradar guys why I like you? Because you are one the few Linux users who can see it without being in love with it. This article has a very important message.
I totally agree with this sentence: "if the mainstream press are trying Linux and simply can't get along with it, then we've got a serious problem."
We have serious problems.
Free software is somehow idealistic. Software must be available and be easy to use! Freedom is at third level of importance I think.
I want Adobe Acrobat Pro and Flex Builder on my Ubuntu and Adobe simply ignores us! I think because we are a really small community among desktop users and this must change! But I don't know with comments like "Stick to your windows!" were are we leading!
Mint
broose (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 6:54pm
They should have sent him a machine with Mint installed. So easy even a complete computer novice / technophob' can use it with little or no instruction as I have witnessed!
Someone who has only used
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 6:59pm
Someone who has only used linux and has never used windows before, if such a person could be found, needs to try to switch to windows and see what they think of that switch.
agree with DaveS
jib (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 7:50pm
You're not completely in the minority. I'm an exclusive linux user, also brought to the point via Vista. I was using it on servers before but not desktops.
As for the ease of use of linux, in some ways (particularly dealing with different monitors!) Linux has a way to go, but it is getting better and better with every release. Speaking of... 4 more days!
Usability could use a facelift
Andrew Cole (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 8:28pm
I'll admit, most of the "life" apps for managing photos, music, and videos have horrible user interfaces. It doesn't matter that Windows doesn't offer anything better because there is a wide selection on Windows, even if it costs money or it installs malware.
For example, my fiancee was happy with the app that came with her camera, all she had to do was plug it in and the pictures would download and she could easily arrange them. Since I switched her to Linux, the program doesn't run under wine and she hates f-spot, and so do I. It works but the user interface is garbage.
Most user programs on Linux suffer from the same problems. Big buttons, amateur looking design art, confusing menu selections, lack of automation, and goofy proportions for layouts.
I actually have plans to do a photo manager using QT's webkit module for the display and adding in shutterfly API support. I probably wont have time to work on it until next summer, but I feel like I need to rewrite all those programs just to make them usable. GTKPOD has one of the worse interfaces I've ever seen
Seriously, the user interface on most staple linux apps is pure garbage.
The way forward.
TheGreatGonzo (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 9:40pm
People do not want to know how to make things happen on their PC's they just expect them to do it. There are issues of software like Spotify not being available for Linux where we can do nothing about that (although I think one of the Qt dev's might be in the process of sorting Spotify!).
However, I think there is a lot that could be done to improve usability and documentation to ease a new user to the fold even if that is only a short help topic on sorting your files (Music, photos and videos). We take it for granted that users know how to do these things and that is unfair.
I do agree with the above comment that had the reporter never touched a computer before what the results would be. Like it or not Windows has defined the computer UI to most people. We need to identify ways to guide people who are at least willing to try Linux.
I'll echo Andrew's comment about the product styling
mags (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 10:18pm
The last decent looking Linux software I saw was QT Creator (http://www.tuxradar.com/content/qt-creator) OK, made by a company but shouldn't this be what open source software aims for? Instead it's the clunky chunky look.
Don't get me started on the brown background, how difficult would it be to change that?
Audacity hard to get hold of?
Mike Brown (not verified) - October 25, 2009 @ 10:31pm
"As for Audacity being hard to get hold of, this doesn't seem too surprising. Yes, we know and love Synaptic, but it must be a terrifying experience for folks who just want to install some software."
So, what do you propose? Ubuntu should dump Synaptic and APT, and have everybody scour the internet for .deb files, just like they have to do to get installers for Windows and Mac?
I don't see what's "terrifying" abou it. Confusing, yes, if you're not used to it. But once somebody's shown you how it all works - which should take all of two minutes - you'll immediately see how much better having a proper package management system is.
The point about start-up wizards is a valid one. And I think that an explanation of Synaptic should be part of that.
angle of approach
Hugo Notte (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 4:48am
It doesn't really matter, what distro you try out. If you expect to find another Windows, then you will be disappointed by any Linux.
If you have driven VW for the past 20 years, you will have to adjust to your new Alfa. Switches are in a different place, instead of the indicators coming on, it will be the windscreen wipers.
If you want to change, be prepared to do it. You can't judge an operating system by how easy it is, to run windows software on it.
Also in the minority
non evangelist (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 7:27am
just like "DaveS" i also don't see the point of talking about linux religiously. i've been using linux for about a decade now & i like it. but why waste time convincing someone that linux is better than windows?
A demo should have been given beforehand.
Mike_IronFist (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 8:11am
Let's admit that Windows has been in use so long that people know how to use it, and that Ubuntu needs demos to show how it works. It's easier than Windows in my oppinion, but not when you're not given any guidelines. A few seconds of instructions can go a long way.
whats in a name?
anothermousepegwen (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 8:39am
at least with windows you do get "Mail, Messenger, Movie Maker and Photo Gallery" even if you have to download it.
I mean what the hell is "Brasero" and "F-Spot".
4 ease of use and navigability may I suggest just renaming a few things with a more generic understandable titles.
some of the things in Linux just sound harder to use than in Windows and especially in Mac.
Mac's have it sorted Iphoto this and Itunes that. it all sounds so easy to find and use.
Better help needed
Jamie (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 9:27am
I agree with the comment stating "A few seconds of instructions can go a long way." It would be great for new users if after ubuntu is installed you can take a tour like you can in Windows.
One problem for new linux users is that they will try and do things the same way as they would on osx or windows. I know most linux distros have wikis and help systems but they do assume prior knowledge.
I also agree with the comment about program titles, I know some mainstream progs have non descript names, Dreamweaver and Fireworks for example a photo album prog and a music playing prog should have names that almost describe what the program does.
It's not a million years ago
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 9:32am
It's not a million years ago that the BBC was getting flack for saying they'd only had 600 Linux users visit their site. Whether we like it or not, the Beeb is a large corporation with a natural affinity for other large corporations, and given that background I thought the linked article was surprisingly well-balanced.
I've tried Ubuntu a few times and always came to the same conclusion as the author: it "would not make my computing life any simpler and more pleasurable than it is now." Nothing against Canonical, I just prefer the way Mandriva handles things.
Not trolling but...
Lucifer! (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 9:59am
I think the problem was the software selection.
If we give him KDE 4, with plasma, kwin, and Amarok, he will say: "wow! Win7 is a copy indeed and I can't live without Amarok now" :-)
It's a free software
Bartolomeo Nicolotti (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 12:32pm
Hey!
this is free software... really free, no charge AND you can do what you want...
For Windows you've to pay 100euro/dollars/pound before the first BOOT!
the missing features are easyly installable.... You've only to put some will.
Then try to build a new application on Windows 7, yuo've to spend other money for many compilers... while with ubuntu you've gcc ...
Bye
I sympathise with Rory
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 1:32pm
I've used Linux since I came across Red Hat 5.1 in 1998, almost exclusively. I like to try as many different Distro's as I can and I find that not everything is easy to get working straight away. I would say that it takes a while to really get to grips with something new, no doubt there will be plenty of things in Windows 7 that will have even hardened Windows users complaining!
I've used Dos, Windows 3, 96, 98, XP and Vista but overall I find that I much prefer to use Linux in its various flavours.
Encourageing comments
Stuart Ward (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 1:43pm
Yes the article by Rory is pretty dismissive, but it is encouraging to see how many comments there are of the type, "I have now been using Ubuntu for 5 months, and now hardly ever go back to windows..."
How Rory Cellan-Jones can claim to be a technology correspondent when he obviously has such a limited knowledge of this technology is alarming. I know there are lots of very switched on people at the BBC running the infrastructure and doing research, that could have done a much better job that this.
If he would me more eager to
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 1:45pm
If he would me more eager to use Linux. He should have done some reseach how to install Adobe and use specific programs.
Since all of beginners can find How-to's all over the NET , it might be usefull to point him out those web pages.
Unfortunately what straightforward to me is not that to others.
(Maybe Windows makes them think complicated and thats why they just cannot understand that using a OS can be simple. )
I have not used Windows over 10 years and I never missed it.
"The BBC journalist - Rory
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 1:59pm
"The BBC journalist - Rory Cellan-Jones - is an experienced computer user who, as his job, tries all sorts of interesting new hardware and software all the time. Far from being a computer first-timer, he's actually not far off being a power user."
An experience user could install a program easy, why he just could not do it by himself?
Using Synaptic or the new Softwer Center cannot be harder then searching through several websides to find some program and then find out of that it is free , shareware or cost you money.
I dont thing Linux harder to use then any Windows. The only thing is that it can be confusing because it look different at first. And for that point people afraid to touch it.
I'm confused!
DilbertDave (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 3:08pm
Why is it a bad thing that it booted faster than Windows 7.? Any what's the big deal about boot times anyway? I've never been that fussed about it myself.
And complaining that it's too brown - come one, change the theme!
Sounds like he just tried to find things wrong with it rather than taking it seriously.
What?
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 4:34pm
"Yes, we know and love Synaptic, but it must be a terrifying experience for folks who just want to install some software. "
How?
In what possible world is it "terrifying" to have at your disposal the ability to install software with a few clicks of the mouse?
Suppose you want to install audacity: you launch synaptic, put in your password, click search, type in "audacity" hit enter and then a second later you click the box next to the audacity package select "mark for installation" and hit enter when prompted to mark the other dependencies. Now all you have to do is click Apply and Robert's your mothers brother.
I admit its a bit harder and more involved than opening a terminal and typing "sudo apt-get install audacity" followed by your password and Y, but it isn't scary.
It's just the Mom test
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 5:10pm
It's just the Mom test again
I can (and have) sat my mom down in front of a Mac, and it works for her. I can't say the same for Ubuntu - although I can get her using it, I need to spend a couple of hours kicking it into a shape she can use.
I'm not sure about Mint as mentioned above, I tried it a couple of times, and although some things were definitely a lot better than Ubuntu (and I am not just referring to the colour scheme), other things still need a lot of usability work.
I'm in two minds about package management. There's no doubt that apt is the way to go, and synaptic is excellent. But only for the advanced users. I can see what they're trying to do with the new front-end, but it behaves like a recalcitrant child - refusing to do stuff you want it to, without reason and when pressed just tries to hide behind it's big brother. It's the right idea, but it needs to be even less "package" oriented, and more "what do you want to do", along with having more human explanations of why it's referring you to Synaptic
Still, Ubuntu is getting there, and it's derivatives more so. Dump the brown, tweak the default Gnome settings, and improve the "install" front end and do something about the installers, and we've got it.
TUX RADAR PUBLISHED A DECEIPTFUL ARTICLE
Mike_IronFist (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 5:36pm
Well, after reading the actual article, I can see that the actual Journalist in question turned out to have some pretty positive impressions for Ubuntu - but Tux Radar took it and spun it into a "controversial" negative review of Ubuntu, just for the sake of garnering commentary and interest from passionate Linux users.. That's pretty dirty of you guys to do. I'm disappointed.
We are afraid
Job (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 5:50pm
People are just afraid of what is different. To have a MS computer running effectively you MUST spend about 1000euros/pounds/dollars worth of software from Microsoft to your anti-virus with other apps in between. On the other hand you need 0euros/pounds/dollars to run a Linux computer.
I mean who wouldn't want that?
It requires more click to install a program in Windows than in Linux.
LINUX MINT
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 5:54pm
Lol you should of sent him LINUX MINT all I can say also. and i aggree with another. this guy is a talker not a thinker. so like most them they dont have a high comprehension unless you sitdown and show them the obvious.
so no a bbc tester is um not very good food for thought. you can only make a operating system so much idiot proof before you send the idiot to someone to teach him in 10 mins the very small basics. yes 10 minutes all takes to teach a person programmed for windows to learn linux. but its needed.
I have personally switched over 897 people to linux mint in last 2 years and not one has left mainly because i sit down with majority of them 10 minutes and explained very simple basics. rest use logic and figure it out without help.
Don't ruin Ubuntu pls
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 6:15pm
Ubuntu is for those who have more understanding of computers and demand more from an operating system which clearly a crap called Windows cant give them. If you don't know how to work with it then they created Windows for you! Leave us alone and don't ruin what we have. You are going to make it look like Windows because of these people. Be careful about that.
After using Windows for
Gorilla_man (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 6:44pm
After using Windows for years (started with 98 and now using 7 RC missing Vista) I installedd the 64 bit version of Jaunty Jackalope and then spent around two hours trying to install Flash and get my onboard sound card working.
I did search the net for instructions and asked for help on twitter, I got various results and couldn't get any of them to work. I tried the terminal commands on one website and ended up more confused then when I started, Synaptic is good but having to enter passwords then search, select the program to install and hit enter a few times is very long winded compared to getting Windows Live Essentials for eaxmple where all I have to do is click download then click open it does the rest for me.
The main problem I had was finding a simple guide and answers to some of the questions I had like "What do I do with deb files?" and "Why do I have to use the terminal to install something?".
I guess what I'm saying is if Linux is going to get used more it needs to help the new users more and in a way a simple but informative tour would help so would something to talk and show and possibly walk you through your first program installation would have helped me a great deal, Windows users are not lazy or stupid they just don't get why you have to go to such lengths to install something on Linux then can be done with a few clicks on Windows. I have to say that after trying for two hours I gave up and re-installed Windows 7 RC and will continue to use Windows until I find a distro that is easier to use.
"Someone who has only used"
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 7:01pm
"Someone who has only used linux and has never used windows before, if such a person could be found, needs to try to switch to windows and see what they think of that switch."
That's me. Really. I'm old, and only took up computing 4 years ago. Never used anything but linux. I was in the local library the other day. Tried to use their Windows computer (search catalogue,etc).
For me it was difficult, creepy, uncomfortable and infuriating. I gave up. Went home and accessed their system online.
Bought a new laptop recently. Decided to try out the pre-installed vista system. Spent a few hours doing this. It was so alien in its fundamental philosophy and interaction I can not conceive that I could ever run a Windows os.
The whole world is brainwashed. Brave New World. Ha!
Intention
VP (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 7:20pm
Its all about your intentions. If your only goal is to find cons, you will find them in any OS be it Windows, Mac or Linux.
I had problem using the mac os x when I first used it. But my intention was to know the system, so i learned with great enthusiasm.
24hours wtf
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 7:32pm
An experienced windows user maybe ? but experienced computer user well thats something else, This was his first look at Ubuntu ? suprising considering he is a technology journalist and come on testing for 24 hours which he obviously didn't test for the whole 24, I bet when he tests windows 7 he gives it more than 24 hours and he is already familiar with Microsoft.
Where's the Energizer Rabbit?
Anonymous Koala (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 7:53pm
Still gestating.
installing
menthol_penguin - October 26, 2009 @ 8:54pm
<<Synaptic is good but having to enter passwords then search, select the program to install and hit enter a few times is very long winded compared to getting Windows Live Essentials for eaxmple where all I have to do is click download then click open it does the rest for me>>
yes, but those few extra clicks and passwords checks is one of the things that makes linux more secure than windows. I prefer the package management approach in linux, if i want to install something open synaptic search for it install it. easy.
Even when i started using linux (first distro was ubuntu 8.04) the package management didn't scare me, seemed to make perfect sense as did the rest of the distro, it's a lot easier to maintain your linux system as everything is all contained in one place not scattered across half a dozen websites like windows.
What really bothers me...
BubbaT (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 9:29pm
... is not the reporters article. The reporter was very condescending, If not in the initial comments, then in the comments that Ubuntu fans should be happy with the few crumbs he threw Linux/Ubuntu despite the fact that they were inaccurate. In the end, he gave as good a review as one could hope.
What is more worrisome, is the apologists for Linux. Distros are not at the point of coffee installations, but they are close. As close as Windows is. After all I want to chose the name of my computer, not some distro maker.
At this point I am fighting some Microsoft malware. That means when I log into Windows I have to disconnect my network connection, physically. When I reboot I forget to plug in the cable. So I plug it in and push a button to restart the network. In this case it works well that way,
but would work better if the network automatically detected the new connection and automatically restarted the network.
OTOH there would circumstances where I would want to shut off networking and would have to figure out how to stop the automatic restart. I forsee that would be a bigger pain. A button to push to restart the network seems like a reasonable compromise between the casual user and the techie. Of course the reporter would think it makes the system too complex.
Canonical has done a lot of good stuff. Ubuntu ( or rather Mint an Ubuntu derivative ) is made dealing with Linux relatively simple. Which is good even for the geeks, because most geeks don't want to fool around with liunux. They want to install linux and fool around with something else.But it also has hurt the linux community by "empowering" a not only usability nuts who are determined to get linux to the point where it is safe to use even by the people who confuse the cdrom with a cup holder.
So now we have a bunch of feminists who couldn't make make it in the mainstream, popping up in the linux community screaming about how Richard Stallman and Mark Shuttleworth are sexist. never mind that their contributions to linux do not sum up to one millionth of the contributions of either man. ( Let us never forget that RMS was the principle creator of gcc, without which none not one bit of this would
exist. )
Or you get Miguel de Icaza's who decide they want to make Linux a "better Windows". Nevermind that in this context it is Microsoft who gets to define what "Windows" and "better" mean, and so push linux into a game it cannot win. When they could be trying to make linux into a "better linux".
THe usability people are important, but they are not as important as the geeks who drive the innovation. Getting systems to a point where they are usable dis important, but not to the point that they make linux so hard for the geeks to use that they go somewhere else.
Remember something. It's Mac that is praised for it's usability, not Windows. This is precisely why Mac struggled for so long. Because it took Apple a long time to figure out that it was important not to make geeks uncomfortable using Macs.
PS:
A different view:
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/10/linux-t-180-days.html
Real Issues, But Suspicious Timing Following LSE's Dump of M$
The Anonymous Penguino (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 10:14pm
If this were another distro I would shrug off most of these issues, but this is Ubuntu, and really shouldn't have any of them at this point in its development, even though they are quite minor in my opinion.
Many of these complaints have been around since Ubuntu's inception. I know I myself been complaining about the default brown/orange color scheme since the first Ubuntu release (yes you can change it, but there isn't the same compelling desire to change the default scheme with the other distros . . . I feel compelled to change it immediately before installing my favourite packages).
Most LCD monitors these days have black borders, which makes it seem even more insane . . . since when do brown shoes go with black tuxes?
I am also disappointed about the 40 sec boot time when significantly reduced boot time was the MAIN focus of this release (all that "koala gestation time" nonsense).
The good news is that I find that things are generally getting better with Ubuntu, and these BBC criticisms are quite minor considering the comparative security and virus issues with windows.
My main concerns as a user are stability and security, while the BBC announcer is out looking for a "pleasurable" computing life . . . and since he didn't play any linux games, I assume this means he gets off on giving his tax-funded salary to Microsoft.
Seeing as how the London Stock Exchange just dumped windows, the timing and placement of this whole "report" smells more than the real life equivalent of a brown ubuntu desktop.
why do I
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 10:50pm
Gorilla_man offers as an example of common questions "Why do I have to use the terminal to install something?"
This is something I occasionally get asked when I offer help on forums so I shall reproduce my usual response:
You do not have to use the command line to install software.
However you have asked for help, that means there are now two people to consider, you and the person offering help.
I can tell you how to install a package using synaptic it will be quite alot of work on my part taking screen captures, describing what to click on and crossing my fingers that you havent uninstalled synaptic or done something else to your system that will change the default behaviour. For you it will be very easy providing you havent removed synaptic. Lots of work for me, very little work for you.
I can instead tell you how to install the package using apt-get from the command line. It will involve very little work on my part, simply typing a single line of instructions, with no need to worry about how you may have customised your system (if you have removed apt-get from your ubuntu - or other debian system then you have some serious work ahead of you). For you it will be very easy since you can just cut and paste if thats all you want. Very little work for me, very little work for you.
I'm sure you can see why the terminal is the way it's going to play out.
There is a learning curve with anything new.... BUT
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 26, 2009 @ 11:38pm
My 4 year old can work Ubuntu. He can open his GCompris and run his games. Do his Tux paint, play some cards, play his flash games in Firefox, and reorganize my desktop folder for me. He's never used Windows, and I'm sure he wouldn't know how to do any of that on Windows.
Tux paint would be more complex for him to get hold of, and his favorite card game doubtless wouldn't be neatly located in the Applications->Games menu. I also don't imagine that it would be immediately apparent to him what exactly the start button is for.
The question is: how do we get Linux into preschools, and primary schools and secondary schools? Once kids are raised on this stuff, they will be comfortable with it. Work on the educational software!
24 Hours with Ubuntu
Ram - October 27, 2009 @ 12:22am
but a week with Windows to familiarize himself with it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2009/10/a_week_with_windows.html
Where he came to the conclusion that the software he was using was 3rd Party - iTunes / GMail / Google Doc's
Maybe he should spend another 6 Days with a standard Ubuntu GNOME instead of UNR.
Ubuntu is the best..................
nasrullah (not verified) - October 27, 2009 @ 2:22am
Being a user of Ubuntu for the past five years I am fully satisfied with this version of GNU/Linux.............
Stop whining about installing Ubuntu; Windows comes preinstalled
Mike_IronFist (not verified) - October 27, 2009 @ 3:03am
"After using Windows for years (started with 98 and now using 7 RC missing Vista) I installedd the 64 bit version of Jaunty Jackalope and then spent around two hours trying to install Flash and get my onboard sound card working."
Yes, it's a pain to get hardware working on a system that the manufacturer didn't make for Ubuntu - but to complain about the installation of an OS is somewhat obnoxious - installing an OS is not easy, be it Windows or any other OS. Try to install Windows on a computer that didn't already have it and you'll see what I mean.
Basically what I'm saying is, it's not valid to complain about the install process - Windows comes pre-installed in the first place, and it's unfair to make the comparison of getting a pre-installed OS working vs. one you install yourself. Installing an OS is not easy - just buying a computer with one on it? Now that's pathetically easy.
This article is right on the
Ben (not verified) - October 27, 2009 @ 7:02am
This article is right on the button. Instead of focussing on achievement, and what CAN be done - we must just put two products side by side. Let someone just play around with it, and record their reactions.
This is the truth, this is what's real. However easy or difficult it is (to install Audacity, I can press 'ctrl t' and type 'install audacity' - if I spelled it wrong, I get alternatives - choose one and go again. Finished - now tell me, how the hell do I do that in Windows?)
For anyone who used Ubuntu for maybe 6-12 months, they're at the stage where they see many things as being easier than Windows. However, managing photo's isn't really sorted - I use Picasa, that's not Ubuntu - and I don't like Fspot much.
Listen to the BBC Boys, they're arrogant, they all use Windows or pay money to get Mac OSX, and they're not interested in Linux. They're like 99% of the population of the world.
Time to grow up isn't it?
I made some harsh comments but...
Andrew Cole (not verified) - October 27, 2009 @ 12:35pm
I made some harsh comments about the usability of staple Linux programs, but I am a die hard Linux user. The idea of viewing this site on IE running Windows makes me want to vomit.
Linux has the whole package, but we are missing the sex appeal. Some of these things are so small and yet so simple. Things like the 3d desktop cube (which I love), only make it worse, because we can't get the small things right, so it makes it look like we don't have our priorities straight,and indeed we don't.
My fiancee, who is a good guide to listen to for a new user, hates many of the programs for usability issues. She doesn't like the combined contact lists in ALL the messaging clients. She wants the ability to have multiple contact windows. I suggested she run kopte and pidgin at the same time, which she has been doing, but as she says, it feels like cheap safety scissors. She wants the official clients, and she can't get them, and added onto that the ones that are available don't do what she wants. Same issue with F-spot and gtkpod. She wants itunes and the program that came with her camera, and when she can't have it, or a program with what she sees are the same features and usability, she gets angry.
Showing her neat compiz effects just makes her sigh and say, why don't they spend their time making pidgin better instead. It is a hard thing to explain the culture to an outsider, but I have gotten her to read the cathedral and the bazzar.
We did things right by making the OS stable and fast and powerful first and then moving to usability, but now it is time to get some usability and design experts, and start polishing up our user programs. And dare I say it, actually start charging for programs?
Pidgin....
Ram - October 27, 2009 @ 1:55pm
@ Andrew Cole
" I suggested she run kopte and pidgin at the same time, which she has been doing, but as she says, it feels like cheap safety scissors. She wants the official clients, and she can't get them "
Good suggestion - but it's not an issue with the Distro be it Ubuntu or which ever. If native clients are wanted then pursue MS / Yahoo / ICQ for Linux versions if
Pidgin is a damn good client. If it's missing something. Flag what you'd like to see with the developers.
Personally I like one client that connects to all my accounts @ ICQ, G-Talk, Facebook, X-Fire and MSN. Which I then group into relevant Groups "Family", "Clan Mates", " Work Colleagues" etc. It's so simplified.
Work just aswell in Windows.
a diiffernt bbc article
menthol_penguin - October 27, 2009 @ 2:01pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8326264.stm
well worth reading
Kubuntu Netbook Edition
Pykler (not verified) - October 27, 2009 @ 2:32pm
Canonical should have given him Kubuntu Netbook Edition, it would have been much easier for a windows user to get used to.
Kubuntu Netbook Edition
Ram - October 27, 2009 @ 3:40pm
@ Pykler
He's a MAC user not Windows.
@Ram
Andrew Cole (not verified) - October 27, 2009 @ 4:34pm
I understand what you are saying. I am a computer scientist in and a programmer. I plan on writing a lot more Linux software. I understand all the layers and distinctions history and culture.
However, she is not, and as an average consumer she doesn't care about those distinctions. For her, it is all one package, it stands and falls together.
I think that FOSS provides the best model for security, performance, and reliability.At the same time, when it comes to usability, design, and feature selection, it requires a more top down model, as in games. You can probably develop the best game engine ever using an open source model, but the content that goes around it to make a complete game requires designers, musicians, artists, writers, etc.
I think we need to encourage free (speech) software that is payed for and downloaded and installed through an integrated app store.
Mac doesn't want any other Unix like system competing with it, but if they offered their ilife software suit for linux, I think people would buy it. We are seriously lacking a movie editor, and the other programs are frankly better than ours.
We need to find some compromise between the two.
Why Linux is difficult for Windows users
Carl (not verified) - October 27, 2009 @ 11:16pm
I observed this when my partner and her mother tried using one of my laptops with Ubuntu freshly installed. Their biggest complaint was they couldn't understand the file system layout and didn't know where their programs and documents were meant to be copied to. I'm used to the FHS traffic accident but new users will be in for a rude surprise. If Linux wants to be acceptable to 'normal' people it needs to drop the FHS immediately and clean up the directory structure more inline with Windows and Mac. The FHS may have made some sense to the time-sharing Unix of 1978 but for Ubuntu desktop of 2010 it is a silly confusing time-wasting disaster. Also the names of standard utilities and command-line options need to be seriously un-geeked.
My dearest Tuxradar, I see
Jimbo Scotland (not verified) - October 28, 2009 @ 9:09am
My dearest Tuxradar,
I see that you are trying to not simply dismiss all of his criticisms (and I would agree that Ubuntu is far from perfect), but the fact he couldn't even work out how to load up an iTunes equivalent which operates in exactly the same way as iTunes, or do the same with the iPhoto/Piscasa app makes me incredibly suspicious of this article. Just how much time and effort did he put into learning the OS before he dissed it?
Directory structure
Pastychomper - October 28, 2009 @ 10:19am
@Carl
"...drop the FHS immediately and clean up the directory structure more inline with Windows and Mac..."
I've never used a Mac or the BSD it was based on, so can't comment on its directory structure, but if we're talking about the same Windows then think I must have missed something. How could _any_ directory structure be both 'cleaned up' and 'more inline with Windows'? Isn't that like asking for an oven to be warmed up to make it more like the freezer?
FSH
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 28, 2009 @ 11:39am
I'm not convinced the unix file system hierarchy is a serious barrier to entry - most of the technically non-adept people I know just save things to "my documents" or their desktop with no notion of whether that is "C:\Documents and Settings\Username\My Documents" or "/home/username"
However if the unix file system hierarchy is a problem (and I admit it makes more sense from a sys-admin point of view than an end-user point of view) and you are willing to tolerate a 32-bit system then you can try them out on Gobolinux - a near complete re-imagining of the FSH that turns the FSH into the package mangement system http://www.gobolinux.org/
Not pleasing people
Ram - October 28, 2009 @ 12:06pm
@ Andy,
I agree with most of what you said. I also think there could be a market for an "App Store" but at the end of the day you can't please all the people all the time.
Different people have different ways of doing things.
For instance - I got home from work last night to find my 12 year old, coping photos from a new camera to ~/pictures, then transfering a selection to her phone. I asked her how she did it. She canceled the popup box* (you get when plugin a usb device) went to the Desktop and just open the icon for the Camera, then open the Piture folder from the Places menu. Then opened the Phone by the icon and copied from Pictures to the Phone.
*From the closed popup box she could have chosen F-Spot, but like most does known that's the Photo App.
Not so hard, so how come the beeb reporter struggled for someone who claims to be a techi?
@Ram The real problem is third party support
Andrew Cole (not verified) - October 28, 2009 @ 2:05pm
Children are a blessing, in a way, because they don't start out with any biases. Unfortunately companies start targeting them very young. I think a study was done on children 5 years old that showed a lot more of them knew Ronald McDonald than the current president.
My finacee likes the app that came with her phone. Telling her she can't use it and suggesting another way of doing the same thing is always going to feel like a downgrade to her. It's a lot like the terminal.
Power users know the, well, power of the command line. Some things are just easier, faster, and more robust on the command line. However, most users see that as a downgrade. They see the GUI as a more advanced way to do things, so asking them to use the command line, which may be the more sensible makes them think less of the system.
There is a threshold we have to cross. There is a large user base that just wont use anything but their preferred third party apps. It doesn't help any that many of the open source ones are not as good either. For every FireFox and OOo there is a thousand crappy programs.
Hopefully the next generation will grow up without this bias and learn to appreciate the best options available, not just the most popular.
Small correction
Andrew Cole (not verified) - October 28, 2009 @ 2:08pm
I don't' know why I keep typing phone instead of camera. We both use razors so there isn't exactly any software with that. lol
directory structure
menthol_penguin - October 28, 2009 @ 3:24pm
isn't the directory structure on linux set up that way because it was originally used for servers and was designed for multiple users to be able to use it without everyone seeing your folders and documents?
I personally find it a lot easier to use as i know where everything is. Especially compared to vista/7 where there appears to be several folders each with the same name. linux folders appear to be easier (to me anyway).
/home/me/(music documents etc) whereas i don't even know what the folder structure looks like on windows (other than a mess) and re-organising all the folders would surely mess up a few applications wouldn't it?
<<Not so hard, so how come the beeb reporter struggled for someone who claims to be a techi?>>
because he's used windows more then he has linux. I don't think it's necessarily hard in itself, only different. I think it becomes hard when people refuse to open things and look around and explore. it's not like you can screw linux up that badly if your not root, and you can always reinstall it, which is not ideal but looking in your home folder won't kill linux.
@ menthol Yes he spent at
Ram - October 28, 2009 @ 3:45pm
@ menthol
Yes he spent at least 6 more days on Win7 than Ubuntu. However, if you read the link I posted earlier
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2009/10/a_week_with_windows.html
He confesses to be a Mac user. To which I think giving him a laptop with UNR as the default desktop was wrong. The classic desktop would have been better.
Shaving or Mice?
Ram - October 28, 2009 @ 4:04pm
@ Andy
Razors - lol
Another area that could be improved is Firefox. My better half normally complains about her facebook games not loading.
Which I thought was just 64 bit n flash not playing together. Turns out to be Firefox, after installing Slackware from the last cover disk. Firefox show thes same faults, and was with 32 bit.
Seamonkey was also loaded in Slack so I gave that a try, low and behold all the issues I could put down to flash worked.
Installed Seamonkey on my Ubuntu desktop and that fixed the issues - so installed it on my Netbook which is running Mint7 for it to fix the same issues there.
Hey, we live and hopefully learn.
@ Ram
menthol_penguin - October 28, 2009 @ 4:44pm
<<He confesses to be a Mac user. To which I think giving him a laptop with UNR as the default desktop was wrong. The classic desktop would have been better>>
I've not looked at UNR so can't say about that. What do you mean by classic desktop? its not a phrase i've heard before. :-)
UNR or Classic Desktop
Ram - October 28, 2009 @ 5:17pm
@ menthol
UNR is a large icon based GUI, phone like I suppose - Classic Desktop is how the stand gnome Desktop is referred to in UNR.
UNR or Classic Desktop
menthol_penguin - October 28, 2009 @ 5:34pm
Cheers.
<<He confesses to be a Mac user. To which I think giving him a laptop with UNR as the default desktop was wrong. The classic desktop would have been better.>>
I agree then, it probably is the wrong choice for a mac user and it probably is easier to use the gnome desktop than the UNR GUI. However i guess that it also comes down to the user as well as to which they would prefer. Which kinda leaves UNR in a tricky position in regards to people using a mac/expecting a mac like UI and using UNR on a netbook. While some may like the UNR GUI some may prefer the classi GUI.
@Ram interesting about sea monkey
Andrew Cole (not verified) - October 28, 2009 @ 6:03pm
I always thought it was the Linux flash plug-in that was causing it to act up. Sometimes when I watch long videos on google video it will just cut out to a gray screen in the middle and I'll have to refresh and seek my last location. I'm using the official Adobe plug-in so I just thought it was half baked.
I'll have to give SeaMonkey a try tonight. Thanks for the tip.
its not only linux problem but non WIN os in general
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 29, 2009 @ 3:07pm
My parrents bought new Mac and got rid of old pc. They were always tempted by the look of Mac's. And switchig to OSX was as painfull for them as for someone who never work on linux.
I was forced to install Virtualbox on mac and run xp to give them acces to few programs or services that arent available on mac. My point is, people who have problems with pcs ie lack of knowledge, how this all works and so on will always have problems witch swicthing to new environemnt no matter if its linux osx or something else.
Love Linux, *** but ***...
Polly the Parrot (not verified) - October 30, 2009 @ 3:37am
...I have had so many experiences with Linux *almost* working that I am starting to be more sympathetic to the moronic Windows crowd.
Case in point: just out of curiosity, I tried to make my Inspiron 1525 internal modem to work with Ubuntu. Oh, boy, what a nightmare! Even using the modem driver and complementary support to alsa from Dell's site itself I still ended up with no modem and... no sound. That's ridiculous. If a piece of OEM hardware is there it should simply work.
And that is just the most recent fight I had with Linux. I am not giving up on Linux, and will avoid Microsoft crap for as long as I can, but, frankly, Linux does *not* help us much in trying to convince people to switch...
That's not Linux....
Ram - October 30, 2009 @ 10:30am
...is fault
@Polly.
I doubt that Dell would have supplied a 1525 with Linux and the modem working.
It's the Hareware suppliers fault for not doing enough.
Ops
Ram - October 30, 2009 @ 1:09pm
<< I doubt that Dell would have supplied a 1525 with Linux and the modem working. >>
I doubt that Dell would have supplied a 1525 with Linux and the modem NOT working.
I Tend to Disagree
labinnsw (not verified) - October 30, 2009 @ 3:31pm
It took me years to learn to use Windows. (I was self taught, no books, tutorials, nothing) I just had a look at Linux to see what the fuss was about and after a week I switched. It is all down to the learning curve. No Windows user should expect to use any other operating system and be immediately proficient. Not even power users. I am no power user, no guru and not even a proper enthusiast, but the only time I feel like I am using a real OS is when I am using Ubuntu.
I don't wish to stop people from thinking whatever they want. But I do wish people would start recognizing the difference between an opinion and the facts. I detest every minute that I am forced to continue using Windows. In my opinion, it is not good enough to be compared with Linux. I am confident that any computer user who spends as much time on Linux as they do on Windows will come to find the Linux experience infinitely more rewarding.
My point
Polly the Parrot (not verified) - October 30, 2009 @ 4:52pm
@ Ram:
I half-agree with you that it is not Linux's fault. However, my main point is the difficulty in getting things to work. Whatever the reason behind it, it is a fact with which we are confronted with much more frequently than we'd expect from a solid system.
My Inspiron came with Winblows installed. A Ubuntu machine would take weeks to arrive if I ordered it directly from Dell (irritating, isn't it?). So I purged Winblows out of it and installed Ubuntu 8.04 straight from Canonical's site. Now, I'd expect that everything *said* to be Ubuntu-compatible would work - and the hsfmodem/alsa thing from Dell's *were* said to work. Talk about frustration, anger and the feeling that I should have stayed with Winblows in the first place...
I was able to get over that particular episode, just like I was able to get over several, several past episodes. There are other reasons that compel me to stay with Linux. But Linux can be a pain in the ass. And that is not good when you are trying to convince people to switch...
(I'd be willing to discuss solutions to this kind of problems in some other thread. For now, let me just say that the solution does involve, in part, confronting Corporate America - not an easy thing to do.)
Linux learning and help
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - October 31, 2009 @ 2:58am
I started learning Linux earlier this year after owning many Windows and one Mac computers. If I had only known one person who was familiar with Ubuntu it would have made a huge difference but I didn't. So I had to dig the info out of library books (the ones at the bookstore were outrageous!). It turned out to be worth the effort but if anyone wants there to be more users a couple page cheat sheet they could get inexpensively would be a great idea.
I am a newbie
Anonymous Penguin(NOT a Linux Penguin) (not verified) - October 31, 2009 @ 9:26am
I completely agree that the drivers and Codecs should be bundled in with the OS. A LOT of newbies are going to reject it when they see that they have to go through installing all that stuff-without even knowing where to look.
That intro wizard is a GREAT idea. Maybe someone could add: "Press control+alt+..." to display the wizard again. And then the intro wizard says how to disable the shortcut to save RAM or whatever for people that think "I have this useless shortcut. I wonder how much computer power it takes for the detection to keep going?" Hahaha.
And I'm pretty sure I have more patience than most newbies:
I constantly was googling to get the Linux partition to be remotely useful. It took me a MONTH! If the codecs and drivers were installed it would have cut it down to a few days. I mean, as a newbie-noob you don't know what anything is called. Let's just say it's hell. And this includes printer drivers. I got our Brother MFC-665CW working after countless hours of searching and trying for wireless printing. Well, if my printer had been on your list, or it auto-selected like on the Mac (We have a Mac, 2 Windows, and a Linux OS in this house) then my experience would be good. In fact, if all the stuff except the multimedia were done, I really don't care, not only would I have been happier then I would have been IMPRESSED rather than burned out. If that printer didn't work after another week of trying I would have given up.
My point is, if only people who LIKE solving these HORRIBLE puzzles and people who have at LEAST as much patience as me ACTUALLY GET a functional Ubuntu on their system, then how do you expect normal people to get in? These are their first experiences with the OS itself, and after finnaly getting it to install AND figuring it out on LiveCD it's a HUGE dissapointment.
The only reason I use it now is cause it loads and runs faster than windows. But the internet kinda sucks you know; and not everyone knows about wine...only Linux people know about wine. I had to install it to use the internet with the WINDOWS version of Firefox just because flash wasn't working right. Encourage Adobe to keep up the good work on Linux versions for crying out loud. The Mac ones are up to date...
+I just can't use open office because of ms office 2007 incompatibilities.
What I think is that promoting Ubuntu will be more effective, if these changes are made.
And yes. Synaptic is more scary than the command line, or editing grub's configuration file. Replace it fast. I'm always scared that I will screw something up when I'm using it, I have NO idea what it can install.
TechHead
uktech (not verified) - October 31, 2009 @ 1:10pm
I have been trying to turn to Linux for years - unfortunately, I earn my living by solving Windows OS problems, so will always need to know how these systems work. However, most of the forums I have ever read all appear to miss the major points in the Linux / Windows wars:
1. (Almost!) Every PC sold in the UK has MS software PRE - INSTALLED.
2. Almost every UK business runs on MS software - on the DESKTOP.
3. Windows software development has a very large budget.
4. Windows desktop worldwide 'footprint' is simply huge.
5. There is no open standard for document exchange. (Ok, don’t shoot me down just yet...)
These are gross UNDER statements and as such make competition very difficult. As a result, any time I try to change I run into major issues:
1. I have never been able to run all my existing hardware on a Linux platform - almost always a driver issue. If I start using Linux for any period of time I always find I have to revert to a Windows machine to get something done. This isn't because of any failing on the part of Linux - just because development energy is always aimed at the largest user base first. (Point 4. above)
2. If I was to ditch all my hardware and start from scratch - I would still find it difficult to impossible to replace all my hardware and apps with Linux versions.
However, I find most of the mainstream Linux distros so well thought out - in use and operation that I'm still looking to move. Microsoft has a long way to go before it catches up with the Mac and Linux ethos of doing things for people. Microsoft always tries to get you to do things their way - which is often counter intuitive and downright frustrating.
If I only needed all the ‘normal’ computer uses - email, surf, write, listen to music etc. I would have switched permanently to say, Ubuntu years ago.
But before we have any real choice in operating system two things have to happen:
1. When we walk into the computer shop, NONE of the PCs come with anything pre-installed. (And keyboards don’t come with a Mac or Windows button either!)
2. We have to have open document standards, so we can exchange docs between different platforms seamlessly and that everyone supports – including Microsoft.
At this point we would have an even playing field and competition could really take off. While all, ok, the vast majority, of desktops come with Windows pre installed and no real open standards exist, changing to and using Linux is still going to be an uphill struggle.
I still love Linux though and eagerly await the day parity comes to the OS!
What was expected to happen?
therealdavidfield (not verified) - November 1, 2009 @ 4:23pm
I think anyone who has used Linux for a while, wouldn't have had these issues, because yes, as you point out, if the user is used to Windows, he knows what to look for, it was interesting to see a Windows user this wek, stumble actually trying to do what you suggested (Photos etc) on Windows 7, the usual stuff wasn't there.. what did they click on ?? Help?? Back to XP...
What Ubuntu could do, as you suggest, is a startup wizard (with an option to turn it off for the rest of us during the installer) where the system after first boot, checks for an internet connection, and then kicks off, with a Flash installer, codec installer, etc etc.
Ah, i hear you say, how can we do this? Some codecs are not installable in some countries.. Well i seem to remember you choosing the country/timezone during install, its not that hard to link the two..
As for the theme, again, KDE handles this VERY well with its direct links to kde-look.org webpage to pull down new themes, icons, emoicons etc, add the same to gnome, and off you go, the gnome-art plugin already does this to a point.
Anyway, its what 10.04 hould all be about, usability and themes.. change the look, and feel.. we have had too many under the hood builds..
Use Linux Equivalents!
Gareth Ravalde (not verified) - November 1, 2009 @ 5:10pm
The better way of getting existing Windows and MAC OS X users to try linux, is to give them a distro to try that replicates, clones or is similar to their existing operating system enviroment.
For Example:
Windows: KDE Distro such as Kubuntu, Mandriva, SUSE, Fedora, Linux Mint. GNOME edition of Linux Mint would be suitable as well.
MAC OS X: GNOME Distro such as Ubuntu, Mandriva, SUSE, Fedora, Linux Mint. Installation of a Dock such as Avant, Cairo, WBar, etc.. or a distro with a Dock by default may be useful.
With Common Configurations like these, there would be a lot more linux users by now. people should not assume Ubuntu is the only distro to show off to new linux users and testers.
Winsows rules? OK....
spiralx (not verified) - November 1, 2009 @ 7:09pm
The correspondent's short but difficult experience with Ubuntu mirrors my own, and a lot of other people's, judging from some of the comments here.
Let's face it. Windows - by fair means and foul- now runs 95%+ of all known household computers. So Linux has to offer a viable alternative. And in techie, geeky ways it does. But in slick, polished, 'easy-for-slobs' ways, it doesn't.
And until it does, it will always be a minority sport.
Windows just runs more programs
Andrew Cole (not verified) - November 1, 2009 @ 11:35pm
Like viruses, adware, and spyware!
It's not about the OS...
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - November 3, 2009 @ 10:31pm
...It's about the data.
Most users don't care about the file system, the hardware support, discussions about 40 second boot times etc, they just want their stuff to work without any heavy duty thinking.
If all of my documents are in .doc format and I can't open them correctly under Linux then I'm forced to stick with Word.
If Linux is to win hearts and minds then the apps have to be better than the comparable offerings on other platforms and it should also demonstrate why a free and open approach is better than a closed one; for example, Android is a Linux based OS, why can't I easily stream video from my Ubuntu desktop to my phone...? Why isn't there an Ubuntu One client for my Android phone? Android is an open platform, shouldn't the distros embrace new, open technologies?
Hmm ...
aikiwolfie (not verified) - November 4, 2009 @ 5:35pm
My first impression here was fair enough. Sometimes Ubuntu can be difficult to use and it's been mentioned to Canonical quite a few time to drop the brown and orange.
However when I read the part about photos being difficult to organise I quickly decided to guy was just being obtuse. Especially given it's part of this guys job to test kit like this.
Another big question is why did Canonical send a netbook with netbook remix? The proper desktop version is more mature and more like the sort of UI a Windows user would be used to. And it'll also happily run on a netbook.
<<I would first need to get
DaVince - November 4, 2009 @ 5:41pm
<<I would first need to get hold of something called Wine which allows you to run Windows apps. Too much bother...>>
The normal Windows user will gladly install crapware in order to get their software working, so why is installing Wine once to be able to run Windows apps from that point on such a hassle? It's like installing Java before a Java app, or .NET before a .NET app...
I can only half agree with the reporter's points, and that's because half of the points given are because he isn't used to how it works.
Love My Linux
Anonymous Penguin (not verified) - November 6, 2009 @ 9:35pm
I love my use of Linux, while it has not been for a very long time, so I am also a newbie. Yet, coming from the world of windows, installing a program from either a CD or the Internet, should take an act of checking dependencies to make it happen. And certainly while I am annoyed by such tutorials that come with windows when it is first installed now which comes after years of using windows, it can be greatly appreciated when you are a newbie and not have to search the many how-to's to find what you need and want to do quickly. Simply, the average Joe that is willing or wanting to make the switch to some that is free-based and not fee-based, needs it to be easier and not so tech laden to make it work. Perhaps, Linux is for the Rocket Scientist and Windows is for everyone else. I would prefer to see people use Linux and not line the pockets of MS and perhaps use the available compilers that are included with every distro to create those great apps that commercially are missing or just missing the mark for those that need them.
I switched because...
Chris1 (not verified) - November 8, 2009 @ 6:47pm
...Linux made "my computing life...simpler and more pleasurable than it (was)."
I hated the thought of battling another Microsoft bloatware with malware included and a real lack of control of my computer. It seemed MS was going to decide what I could and could not do on my computer with Vista so switched to Ubuntu 7.04. After a few years of tweaking, I have a computer that is far easier to use than Vista (and I would bet Win7). Now I probably am a bit geeky...I've use: the Tandy TRS-DOS, DOS, OS/2, Win 3, 95, Mandrake 7 and 9, Win 2000, XP and Vista, and all but Windows 2000 have been a real pain to use compared to a modern Linux distro. I've taken up programming again with Python (since it was included with Ubuntu), all the software I would ever need is available EASILY from Synaptic. It takes me, at most 1 hour to set up Linux again, versus the 2 days I need to get Windows and all of the necessary programs installed and the settings created.
Tech reporter? no i think
Chirs (not verified) - November 10, 2009 @ 2:43pm
Tech reporter? no i think this guy is a joke! i Quote 'I installed a few applications - including Skype, and a social networking application called Gwibber. ' yet it was too much trouble to install wine???
Quote 'So would I actively seek to install Ubuntu or any other Linux variant on a machine I already owned?
To be frank, no, because it would not make my computing life any simpler and more pleasurable than it is now.'
so instead of taking a couple of hours to set up a stable linux box to work and look exactly the way you want it to you would rather have a slow bloated win system complete with the BSOD
Mac not Windows
Ram - November 12, 2009 @ 1:21pm
@ Chris...
The Tech Reporter is a Mac user not Windows.
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